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I've added more to the bottom of this article, and I'm bumping it because I feel like it's important.
Also it's my birthday, so I do what I want. :B

This link. Right here.



Tony. Tony, Tony, Tony.

This attitude is not ok, for many reasons beside it being completely illogical.

1) You don't get to decide who is a geek or not a geek. Period. Geekdom is about acceptance, not rejection. If you're all about Not Liking Other People That Like The Stuff That You Like, you're not a geek, you're a hipster. Who found a pair of glasses.

2) You don't get to decide who is hot and who is not hot. That girl at the con with thick thighs and a little bit of muffin top? She is a perfect 10 in my book, bro. Except that women's bodies aren't up for the judging. Her attractiveness or lack therof does not define her geekiness. The same way that it does not define her social experience. Pretty girls can be socially awkward virgins who don't know how to talk to guys. Both genders can have difficulty with relationships. This percieved perpetual red-carpet treatment of human beans because they sport a rack of meatstuff on their chest is just myth. And if they do recieve different treatment, it's usually because of patriarchy, which is sexism, which is bad for us all. Like, if you see another dude insist on holding a door open for a pretty girl, or pulling out her chair, or telling her she's so pretty, you have to wonder, did she even ask for that stuff? How do you know she's not mentally begging for that creeper to get lost so she can meet up with her friends?

Which brings me into:

3) Tony, I bet you've never had your ass grabbed at a con. I bet you've never had someone stare unblinkingly at you from across the room in a way that made you really uncomfortable. I bet you've never had someone take your photograph without asking. I bet you've never had someone follow you back from the con to your hotel.

(Just to be clear, I'm not talking about specific things that have happened to me, but they are so, SO common for women at cons, and just in general)

When you see a bunch of dudes hanging around and paying attention to a pretty girl in a con, your first, very first question shouldn't be "How / why is she preying upon those poor nerdy souls" but "Does she even want that attention?" Who here is really preying upon whom? Girls are trained to smile and laugh especially when they are uncomfortable. What you may observe from your male perspective as a girl lounging in tons of hormonal nerdy attention may actually be a girl who wants to be entirely left alone, but can't get away from dudes who feel entitled to her conversation and her body.

You talk about "giving them the time of day" whether they're at the con or not. Sometimes there's a reason why. If you creep on a girl at a con, she may think you're ok to talk to about fandom, since you're a geek too, but she's not really into dating you. She's not leading you on, she's not a cold-hearted bitch who enjoys strumming the tightly-tuned heartstrings of men, she's just there for the comics. Not a date. If you creep on a girl outside of a con, and she's not wearing a costume as a conversation icebreaker? She is probably thinking Is this creepy dude with a long, greasy ponytail in a black trenchcoat going to rape me? I kid you not, Tony. I kid you not.

And here's the thing about women at cons and woman at... life. If one dude tries to creep on her in his long ponytail and black trenchcoat, she may (for safety's sake, not out of malice) assume that all dudes in ponytails and trenchcoats are creepy quasi-rapists who breathe heavily and buy her "gifts" with the expectation of sex in return. You know, and I know that not all dudes are like that. That pretty much goes without saying. But bad experiences have a way of shaping a person's behaviour in the future. They want to protect themselves from future harassment, potential stalking and general Bad Mojo. So they snub strange dudes that they don't know. They avoid them. Because rapists don't announce themselves when they walk onto a con floor with a giant "I'M A RAPIST PLEASE AVOID ME" sign over their chest. It would be really helpful if they did.

So for safety's sake, some women choose to only hang around their girlfriends, or group of friends they came with. Because those friends are safe. They still dress up in the costumes that make them feel attractive and geeky and awesome, but they choose not to spend their time with unfamiliar dudes who are trying to find their girlfriend at a con. And Tony, that's ok. It's ok for girls to dress in a sexy manner and not want to interact with you, or to interact with you but not want to date you. Because women are people. They want to feel good about themselves and not feel like the owe everyone in the world a favour.

4) Now, I get what you're saying about sexism in the geek industry. Sex sells. Games and comics have lots of sexy female characters that women cosplay. And there are sexy ladies dressed up at gaming and comic conventions whose sole purpose is to prey on the budding sexuality of male geeks and who are only interested in taking their hard-earned pocket money. You know what they are called? Booth babes.

These are ladies who are hired by YOU, the industry, to sell a product. Are they fake geeks? Only so much as they are a product that you have created and you are selling. In this real-world economy, these ladies need a job, and industry booths hire them to stand pretty, take pictures and take young geek money. They are not there for personal satisfaction or to up their "geek/hot girl" cred. They are there to work, at a booth, just like you. If you want to deal with sexism in the industry and scantily clad women running around convention centres, you should really take a look at your own industry practices before you condemn female fans who are trying to emulate the characters that they love.

5) And lastly, that brings me back to the relevance of the long-running superheroine contest. If you SO abhor seeing fat girls in skimpy clothing, maybe you and your comic book pals could design a character or two that doesn't have gravity-defying ta-tas and an impossible self-supporting mobius-strip costume now and then.

Now, can we please stop hating on girl geeks and play nice?

EDIT: If this is not an issue about sexism, please, please point me to where folks in general are trying to stake out "fake geek" men. Men who play video games to garner attention, men who know nothing about comic book characters, but buy figurines because they "look cool". Men who cosplay their sexy, sexy body in a "sexified" version of a popular character, but are only in it for all that girl geek fawning. Do we quiz them on canon and origin stories? Do we look at those dudes who are just a little too attractive to be there and question their motives? Oh? A cute boy walked into a comic shop with his oxford shoes and buddy holly glasses? I bet he's not a "real" geek, I bet he's just a poser doing it because it's cool.

Because as a woman, you are constantly put on the defensive of your "geek cred". You are asked to prove yoruself to the gatekeepers of geekdom that you are, in fact, a legit geek. And god forbid you don't pass their internal test of what makes a geek. You read Elfquest but not Superman? Not a Real Geek(TM). You play RPGs but not FPS? Not a Real Geek(TM). Men are not questioned by the Geek Authority upon entering a sacred space like a comic book store or a gaming lounge. Men are assumed to be geeks first and foremost simply for being there. Women are assumed to be... evil? I dunno. I haven't quite figured out why we're in geek spaces in men's minds if we're not geeks.

Women should not have to prove themselves to be geeks, just to please the minds of people like Tony who is Totally Not Sexist and Kindly Differentiates Between Real Geek Girls and GurlGeeks. If they say they are geeks, they are geeks. If they only read a few comic books or dabble casually into gaming, but aren't really into tabletop stuff? Still geeks. Just like guys are still geeks even though they have differing tastes in geekdom. Movies, Cosplay, Games, Comics, Novels, Shows, Sci-fi, Fantasy, Horror, the world of geekdom is HUGE. We're all a part of it in some way. Because it's fun to be a geek. It's fun to share your knowledge with someone who doesn't know about what you love.

And girl geeks are SO GOOD at getting new people into fandom. You walk up to somebody's tumblr and are all "who is this hot duder in a scarf" and she's all "LET ME ASPERGERS YOU ABOUT SHERLOCK FOR AN HOUR AND SHOW YOU THESE GIFS" And that's how it should be. About sharing, promoting, loving what we love. Not forming some kind of hipster pit where the coolest person doesn't have any friends and damn well makes sure no one likes the obscure stuff they like because underground and stuff.

If you see a cosplayer at a con who is new to fandom, new to geekdom, or casually putting their toes into this space by wearing a costume, you have two options:

1) Leave them alone because maybe they want to be alone

2) Offer to teach them new stuff to make them a better geek. Teaching is fun. learning is fun. Making friends is fun.

Two other good responses to the subject: fav.me/d5l2ft0 thanley.wordpress.com/2012/11/…

EDIT 2: Friends, your misogyny is showing. You might wanna zip that up.

This slut-shaming stuff has to stop.

"I'm ok with cosplayers but not the slutty ones, we all know who THEY are" is some real sexist, woman-shaming crap on a stick. You do not define what is "slutty" and what is "not slutty". Especially when you do not hold men up to the same standards that you hold women.


Many people have seen a Fat Hulk in their con-going days.

Fat Hulks aren't questioned about their body. "Ew, you're not ripped like the hulk, cosplay to your body type! You've killed my attraction to the character!"
Fat Hulks aren't assumed to be "slutty" for wearing literally only ripped pants. "Wow, dude, put a shirt on. All the women are staring at you."
Fat Hulks aren't questioned on their knowledge of Hulk Backstory. "Yeah? What do you know about the Hulk? I bet you just picked the Hulk because he has a skimpy costume and you could show of your semi-hot body!"
Fat Hulk costumes aren't seen as "cheap" even though the costume is only ripped pants and green paint. "Oh, anyone could throw that together the night before. You put no EFFORT into it! You're clearly only here to attract Hulk fans and doing it for the attention!"
Fat Hulks aren't compared to better hulks. "Yo, dude, the Hulk over there is WAY more ripped, you may wanna stand back a bit"
Fat Hulks don't have pictures of their ass or up-shorts surreptitiously taken of them without permission "Well, if you're gonna walk around with no shirt on, people are gonna notice and take you picture. If you don't want people to take your photo in a public space, don't go out like that. Wear something less revealing." (www.xojane.com/issues/cosplay-…)

In short, stop policing women.
Stop holding them to any sort of "nerd standard" I don't care if she doesn't know anything about comics and blindly wandered into a comic con thinking it was a shoe store. You are not allowed to judge her presence there.
Stop deciding what is "too little" for them to wear. It's none of your business what she does with her body.
Stop deciding what is "too much attention" being paid to her. Don't like her attitude or her thoughts? Don't hang out with her. Just leave. Don't be so passive-agressive and internetty about it. If you have a real problem with someone's behaviour, such as them physically touching you or hitting on you and making you uncomfortable, pull them aside and have a grown-up conversation with them.

Magic Words: "Hey, I pulled you aside to talk to you. See, I know we're all here to have fun, but you joke a lot about sexy stuff around me, and sometimes you grab me into these random hugs and it kinda makes me uncomfortable. Could you please tone it down around me? I just really don't like flirty, sexy stuff and I don't like to be touched without asking my permission first. I'm not trying to ruin your experience, I just want us both to have a good time at the con. Thanks for listening."

Most people will listen when you ask them to respect your personal boundaries. Running to facebook and whinning about those slutty sluts and their dirty slutness is just so counter-productive.
If that cosplayer is getting all friendly with someone else and that someone else is enjoying it? None of your business. None. Go read a webcomic and let them have fun in the way they want to have fun. You are not the slut-police.

Read more here: thestray.tumblr.com/post/35819…
What is Slut Shaming? finallyfeminism101.wordpress.c…
Add a Comment:
 
:iconsylviad:
sylviaD Featured By Owner Jun 20, 2014
Telling anyone to stop judging anyone is a waste of time. Take it from me.
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:iconearthx:
earthx Featured By Owner May 9, 2014  Student General Artist
thank you for writing this

ps. you had me at 'Sherlock'. that's what i do all the time :D
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:iconaimiliona:
Aimiliona Featured By Owner May 27, 2013  Student Traditional Artist
LOVE THIS
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:icontheskaldofnvrwinter:
TheSkaldofNvrwinter Featured By Owner Jan 21, 2013  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
While I don't agree with his statements, I think we live in a overly sumberged feminist worldview. Some of this stuff may be going on at cons--I wouldn't know, since I've never been--but women, as a whole, have nothing to fear from me. Feminists have created a atmosphere, a pumped up atmosphere, where women actually believe 1 in 4 of them are raped. It isn't true.

That said, I would say to geek guys respect the geeker girls. They are great. And don't assume because you have something in common she wants to date you. Get to know her.
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:icontheskaldofnvrwinter:
TheSkaldofNvrwinter Featured By Owner Jan 21, 2013  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
sorry, typo, that was supposed to be 'nothing to fear from men.'
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:icononlycomeoutatnight:
onlycomeoutatnight Featured By Owner Jan 26, 2013  Professional General Artist
speaking as a woman who was bitten at a con by a strange guy, a man who was not my husband, completely without my permission...women DO have things to fear from men. in my case, i was friendly (not flirty, just polite and smiling) and wearing a corset. i had a blouse on, so i was not showing too much cleavage...i was in NO WAY responsible for his actions (although i could have been naked and he still would not have had permission or the right to touch me). he bit my shoulder while we were standing in a crowded hallway.

you were probably more accurate stating women had nothing to fear from you personally, than to assume all men are going to be respectful at cons. that was one story from my first con...i know many others from women who've been to more than me. that is unacceptable. (btw, i don't know of a single case where a woman has acted that way to a man at a con...not saying it doesn't happen, just that it is unreasonable to expect women to ignore the very real possibility that they could be sexually assaulted at these events simply because it makes men uncomfortable)

in the USA alone, over 125,000 rapes are reported every year. that's just the ones that are reported. many go unreported because of fear of further punishment, feeling shame, coercion...etc. instead of minimizing our fears and experiences, you could support women who are brave enough to stand up to this, encourage women to dress how they want, and protect women at cons who are facing unwanted or inappropriate attention.
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:iconhopfield:
Hopfield Featured By Owner Dec 29, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
That's a great reply, I kept nodding and agreeing throughout. I'm sad that someone so involved with the comic business holds views like this, but not overly surprised. It seems to me that mainstream comics remain completely white-male-centric. Wikipedia lists Tony's key work on Iron Man (white man in a suit that gives him special powers), Starman (white man with special powers) and Ex Machina (white man with special powers). I've just deleted loads because I kind of went off on a crazed rant. Anyway, great post, thanks for putting it together :)
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:iconnaria-hime:
Naria-hime Featured By Owner Dec 20, 2012  Student General Artist
I thank you for this post and completely agree with you. Post like Tony Harris' are just infuriating! It makes me want to drop cosplay sometimes! And it is sooooo true that people think they have the right to judge what is slutty and what is not, when, in fact, according to the LAW, as long as a woman's nipples and vagina are covered, be it with only pasties and a thong, IT IS PERFECTLY LEGAL for her to roam even the STREETS in broad daylight. So I do not understand why a girl is somewhat revealing clothing would be demonized at a con which is supposed to be a safe environment in which you can let loose, have fun, and WEAR that costume without being afraid (I have been followed by people when I wore my San - Princess Mononoke - cosplay on a bus... it was creepy! and that's not even revealing!) I dunno... I hope that opinions like yours will someday come through and knock some sense into people. Until then, I will still refrain from cosplaying anything sexy that will make me feel attractive because I fluctuate between a size 8 and 10 (I used to be much thinner) and I am uncomfortable with the sort of comment I KNOW I would get if I dared to do anything that, for instance, showed my midriff... *sigh*
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:iconalyssa-ravenwood:
Alyssa-Ravenwood Featured By Owner Dec 19, 2012  Professional Artisan Crafter
Well said. Thank you.
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:iconirandompanda:
iRAndomPAnda Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2012
Excellent response to such a poorly thought rant.
Out of curiosity: I would like to hear his viewpoint then of opposite gender cosplay
[link]
[link]
[link]
These are all men in skimpy revealing costumes but more than likely they will be seen as funny and clever, not so much as "he's doing it for sexual attention".
Simply, men and women go there to have fun, not to be judged. (unless you enter into a costume contest :P )
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:icontanyamyth:
TanyaMyth Featured By Owner Dec 8, 2012  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
I'm really glad you're posting this, it's kind of an inspiration lol. You posting this makes me feel better about me and going to cons. Lately, I haven't been the nerd I was last year, but I've been through so much crap this year, I just haven't even had the heart to even pick up my sketchbook. I know I'm not the skinniest, or the smartest about comics when it comes to them, but I'm always excited about cosplaying at the cons! And who doesn't enjoy a little praising about your cosplay? You worked hard on it, so why wouldn't you want a little attention? People always cosplay for a reason, it doesn't matter what others think, just be yourself! And don't hate on the girls >_<... We are NOT sluts because we cosplay as a favorite character, it's just not slutty, we are trying to have fun, not be harassed for who we are. We don't need pervs and assholes where we are supposed to feel comfortable and safe with people who are like us. There's my crappy rant :) enjoy lol..
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:iconioialoha:
Ioialoha Featured By Owner Dec 2, 2012
"Because it's fun to be a geek. It's fun to share your knowledge with someone who doesn't know about what you love." Nailed it. THANK YOU!!
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:iconcathleentarawhiti:
CathleenTarawhiti Featured By Owner Nov 28, 2012  Professional Photographer
What a nutter.
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:iconbiram-ba:
Biram-Ba Featured By Owner Nov 21, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I've never been to a comic con where cosplayers attend, so I don't really know what it looks like out there.

Is craving attention wrong? I don't think so. As long as it doesn't come from bad intentions. In the same way as the need for love or friendship it probably comes from some form of loneliness. More than that, people getting attention irritate us the most when we want that attention for ourselves.
That I can also understand, as peoples's attention is my source of income. :)
On the other hand, nobody likes ignorance about stuff they enjoy. I'm not saying you need to know which issue was the one Gwen Stacy died to go at comic con (I sure as hell don't), but if you dress as a character, you should expect people will want to talk to you about him/her.
And it's not really about being a hipster, at least not for me. It's about the fact that most people have no idea who Alan Moore or Jack Kirby or even Stan Lee are and it's kind of sad, to a point of making some people angry, I guess.
I'm probably not a geek myself for some people's standards, never was big on Star Wars or Star Trek, and as far as superheroes go I'm not a big fan of what goes on in most mainstream comic series. And I think we all know fear of rejection. so I understand going some place in a costume knowing people who know more than you about it will judge you can't be easy for most, no matter how attractive they are.

As for "fat Hulks" not being questioned about their body [link] Facebook commenters are usually like that. Or it's "Nick Fury isn't black!" or "Ben Kingsley isn't Chinese!", "Everything sucks, but I'm going to watch it anyway!".
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:iconthedm1:
TheDM1 Featured By Owner Nov 20, 2012
Sorry for the 3 comments in a row but.. got around to clicking on the links Kxhara provided finally.

Oh god.. he's not some random loser he's an Eisner award nominated comic book artist? And he STILL comes up with this kind of crap? I think I'm going to be sick.

Don't get me wrong, the fact that Tony Harris is apparently this hugely successful comic book artist doesn't change my opinion in the slightest (though it appears I'll have to modify my "bitter loner" theory , much as I hate to say this someone that successful probably has female companionship, for some odd reason successful men can be jerks and still attract women at least initially .. I doubt he DESERVES such companionship with opinions like the one he stated and I feel bad for the woman in question he's dating/has dated in the past but he probably has it ...)... but this is really disappointing .. look at the other Kxhara entry on the fat superheroine contest.. I'm beginning to wonder just how many males who work in the comic book industry fall into the I-like-to-mistreat-women-category.... and to know an award winning artist like this is spewing this sort of crap .. cripes it can't be ALL of the guys in the industry, not saying that at all ... but two incidents in a row like this is depressing as all hell for comic book fans like myself :( ...
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:icontheskaldofnvrwinter:
TheSkaldofNvrwinter Featured By Owner Jan 21, 2013  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
some people--I said 'people'--are sexist. Some men are misogynist, sure...but a FAIR number of women(feminists) practice misandry.
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:iconthedm1:
TheDM1 Featured By Owner Jan 22, 2013
" While I don't agree with his statements, I think we live in a overly sumberged feminist worldview. ...Feminists have created a atmosphere, a pumped up atmosphere, where women actually believe 1 in 4 of them are raped. It isn't true. "

This isn't something I say lightly ... my belief is that people get way too hostile towards each other on the internet and I try to be nice to others as best as I can .... but sir, I must confess, I want absolutely nothing to do with you. There are certain people whom you disagree with on such a strong, fundamental level that any contact with them, even something as simple as them commenting on your comment becomes.. well, profoundly disturbing to say the least. As much as I hate to use language this strong ... I find people with your mindset, to be honest, absolutely horrifying. Thus my desire to keep as much distance from you as possible.

Yes there's always the (slim) chance that a woman is falsely accusing a man of rape or saying she was raped when she wasn't.. but the crime in and by itself is so incredibly horrific that it HAS to be taken seriously.. it just does, you can't just casually dismiss it like that on the basis that it "might" be some sort of false accusation. Cripes I'm a guy I will NEVER be able to understand just how scary and awful that sort of thing might be to a woman simply because I'll never be able to see or appreciate the world the way she does through her eyes, my very gender makes it impossible. And even then I still know this is just something you don't take lightly.

At this point I have to say that I will be ignoring any replies you post to this or pretty much anything you say to me in the future. Feel free to vent as much as you like I just won't be listening to it.
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:iconthedm1:
TheDM1 Featured By Owner Nov 19, 2012
Okay I figured out what was making me nervous (see earlier comment below).. please forgive the delayed reaction time :P , was rushing to bring treats to munchkin's school for her bday so was distracted but that's neither here nor there...

The post Kxhara quoted by "Tony Effing Harris"... disturbing on so many levels I don't know where to begin.. calling women sluts for dressing a certain way? I thought we'd evolved past the whole " Die harlot you are dressed inappropriately ! " (stone harlot to death) sort of mentality in today's society but I guess not.. the amount of ... there's no other word for it, bile, and hatred pouring out of this person's post... as much as I hate to be the one who assumes (you know the whole makes an ass out of u and me thing) there are a few things that I think are going on here 1) this "Tony" person lacks female companionship 2) this person is bitter about it and 3) this person has chosen to target the cos-playing women as a result using " You don't know SQUAT about the fiction that takes place in comics ! " excuse. Look I was the geeky unattractive male-person too at one point (maybe I still am ? :P ) I get it , I do ... but even I was able to date a girl in high school, a relationship that continued on through most of university.. four years actually ... with a rather attractive woman at that (or I thought so anyways ;) .. and while I realize my opinion might be subjective ;) most guys I met shared the same opinion of her ;) ) ... being a nice guy DOES have it's merits and girls DO look at your personality too, not just your appearance.. yes you'll have to endure a number of humilating " No" 's from various women before you get to that " Yes " but that's no reason to start hating on women in general... but if you're going to go into total insecure mode instead of doing something about your lonely unhappiness, then vent said insecurity in what can only be described as a misogynistic outpouring .. well you're going to be single for a long time Tony, and as uncharitable as this sounds I think you deserve it.

So that's the reason I was nervous... when Bauer says " isn't he just angry at women that go to cons just to get noticed? " it sends chills up and down my spine, I guess because the thought of anyone agreeing with ANYTHING that this Tony character has to say makes me nervous. I do understand what Bauer is getting at.. he takes issue with what he regards as "posers" who come dressed as a character they know nothing about ... and again Bauer has distinguished himself by not going into rage/hate/bile mode as so many other people do who post on the 'net so kudos to him for that .... and of course not everyone is going to have the same opinion as everyone else so Bauer is entitled to his own, that goes without saying.

But, respectfully speaking, I have to disagree with him 110 percent. It seems rather elitist for us comic book "geeks" (I consider myself to be one ;) ) to "come down" on a woman dressing as a certain comic book character for lack of knowledge of said character.. put simply.. what gives us the right to do so to begin with? To be that sort of "judge" if you will? I'm not sure it's our place to do so and to be brutally honest I find the very concept of judging someone that way to be somewhat offensive (sorry Bauer.. and I mean that I really am sorry, I know that sounds harsh.. but that's honestly how I feel.) Again, women who dress up as a certain comic book character are, as far as I'm concerned, adding to the festive "let's celebrate comics" atmosphere simply by dressing up and bringing the characters to "life" so to speak. If I'm at a comic con and I see a woman in a great costume as say Storm I'm not going to mercilessly grill her on every single major historic event in the X-Men's past comic book adventures as it pertains to Storm personally, suspiciously taking notes in my little notepad all the time ready to shout " AHA ! " the moment she trips up. My reaction is going to be more along the lines of " COOL costume I can see you put a lot of work into it ! Hey , mind if I take a picture with you? I've got to show this costume to all my buddies it is SO intricate ! " (thus the reason for the request for the pic ). I know at least one comic-con woman who dresses up for these sorts of things personally and the amount of work she puts into her costumes.. tremendous. The countless hours they put into designing those costumes shows to me right there their dedication to the "spirit" if you will of comic-cons.. though far as I'm concerned they never had anything to prove in the first place.
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:iconthedm1:
TheDM1 Featured By Owner Nov 19, 2012
I dunno man.. while I don't really want to flame this other guy (I think he's taken pains to at least be polite and respectful which is sadly rare on the internet nowadays)... comments like " isn't he just angry at women that go to cons just to get noticed "? and the whole thing about women at cons " needing " to be aware of the character whose costume they've adopted or just aware of the comic book fiction in general.. that makes me nervous as all hell.. okay so a woman goes to a comic book con not knowing anything about the character she dressed up as .. I'm sorry but.. I just don't see it as this enormous crime .. this guy has a right to his own opinion of course but.. something about what he says is making me nervous.. really nervous.. on a gut level.. don't ask me to explain it, it just does...

A woman who dresses up as a comic book character, regardless of her knowledge of the fiction she is portraying, adds to the festive , fun " we love comics" atmosphere at comic cons .. I can't see that as anything but a good thing.. assuming of course morons keep their hands to themselves and can keep their comments respectful (rolls eyes) , which appears to not always be the case... Damn sorry this sort of stuff goes on for women at cosplays I had no idea ! :( .. thank you for bringing this to our attention Kxhara.. I have to keep up with this profile you've been educational as all hell on a bunch of issues :) ...
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:iconbirdee-blake:
Birdee-Blake Featured By Owner Nov 16, 2012  Student Digital Artist
I think I'm in love with about 99.9% of the people commenting here.

Down with slut-shaming and body-policing and misogyny and self-entitled jackass men, whether they be fellow nerds or otherwise!
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:icontheskaldofnvrwinter:
TheSkaldofNvrwinter Featured By Owner Jan 21, 2013  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
what about the women who practice misandry?
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:iconbirdee-blake:
Birdee-Blake Featured By Owner Jan 21, 2013  Student Digital Artist
Hahahah

Yes those poor oppressed men. Can't forget them.

:rofl:
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:icontheskaldofnvrwinter:
TheSkaldofNvrwinter Featured By Owner Jan 21, 2013  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
feminist crap doesn't work on me
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:iconbirdee-blake:
Birdee-Blake Featured By Owner Jan 21, 2013  Student Digital Artist
So, what are you doing here in a journal that is several months old, responding to a comment that is also several months old, when the topic is related to feminism and equality? Has any of this information gotten through to you? You are white, you are male, and you're probably straight and cis too. You are not under any form of oppression in today's society, least of all among comic geeks.
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:icontheskaldofnvrwinter:
TheSkaldofNvrwinter Featured By Owner Jan 21, 2013  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
and neither are you
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:iconauaurum:
AuAurum Featured By Owner Nov 16, 2012
The reason males aren't sexualized in costume is because girls are actually polite while girls are sexualized because guys are not. As for girls dressing a bit skimpy, it can be distracting to all attendees, but it should be training to NOT get distracted.
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:iconbauerpower24777:
BauerPower24777 Featured By Owner Nov 15, 2012  Professional General Artist
Forgive me for being devil's advocate, but isn't he just angry at women that go to cons just to get noticed? I mean, this is something that makes me upset, if that was his point. I would assume that a comic convention is for comic enthusiasts of any level (whether you've seen a movie, read a story, played a game), but just donning a costume once in a while and doing nothing comic related at other times makes me ask: why are you there? Perhaps save the costume for a party?

I say this because I would find it frustrating to attend a fan club meeting to find that people aren't fans, they're just there to "be noticed", like people who post "so sad" updates on social media just to get people to respond. If you're there JUST to wear a bikini, go to the beach.

Of course, if he's hating on casual fans, then good riddance. Even a casual fan deserves the right to do what they want at a con. He/she (casual fan) should not have to recite every time a character burped in canon stories to be able to walk a con. Cons are supposed to be for enthusiasts of every level IMHO. I am an enthusiast, and I have opinions, but I wouldn't consider myself rabid, and I wouldn't look down on anyone who had less knowledge than me (and if I did look down, I think later I would feel pretty stupid about myself). I doubt some of the serious cosplayers could tell you everything their cosplay character has ever done, but they are clearly fans and a part of the culture.

Now, I may have missed the speaker's point. What I say is this: if we're talking about some woman who put on a bikini with some metal on it and calls herself a cosplayer and knows ZERO about anything relating to anything at the Con, we may have a problem. If this guy is hating on cosplayers like Yaya Han, Bella, etc. that's his problem, because knowing something, ANYTHING about the source IS fandom and doth a fan make.
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:iconrobynrose:
RobynRose Featured By Owner Nov 15, 2012
So a casual fan can't be a cosplayer? Why not?

Why is Yayahan allowed to cosplay, but a new fan (who may not yet have the sewing skills, nor the extensive geek knowledge) not be allowed to cosplay? Why is one a "legit geek" and the other an attention-seeker?

Again, it's about policing female fans for their choices. I say this with realness and honesty and curiosity: who does it hurt if a girl doesn't know much about comics but wants to dress up? Who does it harm? It doesn't reduce comic sales, it doesn't physically harm anyone. No one is forcing you to look at their poorly constructed costume. It's not going to make or break anyone's con experience just to have a girl in a slave leia costume walking around enjoying herself.

Why is this such an affront to people's experience? Can't you just ignore the people you don't like and go on about your day?

(Which, by the way, is what girls are supposed to do if there is a creeper they don't like at the con. She's the one responsible for removing herself or ignoring the person she doesn't want to interact with. It seems hypocritical that people are so willing to publicly harass a girl who isn't harming anyone ("What's with all these cons sluts they should just go away"), but often say silent when there are very real and very harmful creepers in their midst.)

And again about the attention thing. So a girl is there JUST for attention. JUST to flirt and hang around guys. So what? if you're not interested in her, no one is forcing you to flirt with her. But as well, you have no right to police who or how many people she flirts with. It's really none of your business. It's none of my or anyone else's business. Your option is to just not pay attention to her. Don't feed the troll, so to speak.
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:iconbauerpower24777:
BauerPower24777 Featured By Owner Nov 16, 2012  Professional General Artist
"So a casual fan can't be a cosplayer?" Of course! I think it's great that a casual fan can be a cosplayer. I think that the cons need more casual fans. All of these "chapter and verse" people can get too serious o.0 These places should be places of learning, and if someone's gonna shun the new guy, there's the door, pal... Leave, but the new guy can stay :)

"Can't you just ignore the people you don't like and go on about your day?" Good point. My only counter to that would be this: how many people buy a movie ticket so they can have a place to sit? Not too many. People buy tickets to view a movie. You have to ask: if you bought a ticket, why don't you care about the movie? But you bring up a good point: what does it matter to me?

"who does it hurt if a girl doesn't know much about comics but wants to dress up?" I think there is ZERO harm in that!!! These are the two unlikely scenarios that would upset me. 1: a girl Googles "sexy cat costume" and cosplays Catwoman WITHOUT seeing a single Batman movie, Batman TV show, or comic book. (granted, I find it impossible to believe that there is anyone out there that doesn't at least have the most basic knowledge of the character). Again, I am talking someone with ZERO KNOWLEDGE. 2: SOME booth girls. This ticks me off, because it plays into the "Neanderthal" male impulse. What I mean in this scenario is a girl, hired by an agency who again has ZERO KNOWLEDGE of anything there.

And you're right, a girl can do whatever they want. Let me tell you what I feel, though. I think the comic industry is very sexist, and it's male audience is very sexist too. When a girl just wears a costume with ZERO contact, I think she's cheapening all women, from the casual fan to the rabid devotee, and it plays into that sexism. It is none of my business, you're right, but I do feel ashamed for humanity when these things come up, both for women and men.

You keep saying "fan". I thought the original post wasn't making a distinction about how deep the fandom ran. I could be wrong. But to me, if you like a character, you're a fan. Even if you only know Catwoman is a thief, but you don't know her name is Selina Kyle, you're a fan. If you only know she's from Batman, you're still a fan. To me, it's that simple. :)
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:iconkhisakitty:
Khisakitty Featured By Owner Nov 15, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
Wow, thank you for that wonderful reply.

Now if all the slut-shaming in the comments could stop...
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:iconrukiara:
rukiara Featured By Owner Nov 15, 2012  Student General Artist
I respect you, and I only half agree.


Some women really are devious at nature, that's reality. Some men, are equally as piggish, but just because we are female does not make our gender an exception to the "shitty person" rule.

I have had to deal with women that are dressed up and know nothing, attention seeking whores. They exist. If you really think they want to be left alone, then you're sorely mistaken. The girls he talks about are the ones that don't want to learn, he specifically is talking about women who prey on the geeks, he said some are an exception to a rule, so why go up in arms if you don't fit the mold?

I have to agree with him. The women who prey on geeks are a disgrace, AND THEY EXIST. BIG SHOCKER. He was specifically talking about those devious women who are no-good-rude-attention-seeking-stuck-up-girls. And he did say there are those exceptions to the rules, stop clinging to some little rant as if we all have the right to judge him for not wanting to see his fellow socially awkward buddies being taken advantage of. It's like working at fast food, then complaining about bad costumers, then EVERYONE ON EARTH vilifying him for being frustrated at the horrible things that go on. It's not right, just like you don't want to be judged, let the man rant. Maybe he needs to get it out of his system and wants to be "left alone", in your up in arms to defend "women" you have disregarded doing the same "favor" to him. Sure, "he did it", but don't say he needs to do something you can't do yourself for him.

I for one support what he said, some people are terrible and we need to accept that. I know that I am also a bit socially awkward, so if I dress up as my favorite character, and a girl who is only there for attention who will go talk to millions of guys later on gets all the attention because her costume is more expensive or better or skinnier or more make up or something, and I'm left in the dark. The girl who actually knows comic books, now this doesn't always happen, but it still does happen and it's wrong. Not every woman is worth defending.
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:icontheskaldofnvrwinter:
TheSkaldofNvrwinter Featured By Owner Jan 21, 2013  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
AMEN
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:iconrobynrose:
RobynRose Featured By Owner Nov 15, 2012
Every woman is worth defending from misogyny.
I will defend you from misogyny to the last.
I hope you would do the same for me.
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:icontheskaldofnvrwinter:
TheSkaldofNvrwinter Featured By Owner Jan 21, 2013  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
would you defend me from misandry?
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:iconrukiara:
rukiara Featured By Owner Nov 18, 2012  Student General Artist
I guess I hate to be cynical, but *you* I'd defend, but not every woman, just like I wouldn't defend every man.

Though I do hope you know my opinion is (as adamant as I can sound sometimes) in all respect, everyone has their beliefs and that's their right. Though part of me wishes I could be as passionate and righteous? I think is the closest word in opinion as you, but I have been battered and bruised by other women worse than anyone else in my life, I can't believe all women are good just like I know all men aren't. People are fickle.

Though I appreciate your passion on the topic, and I've always appreciated your discouragement of the comments about your body in your stock etc.

Regardless of our differing opinions I still respect you for yours.
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:iconmazelina:
Mazelina Featured By Owner Nov 15, 2012  Hobbyist Artisan Crafter
hahahahahahahhahahahahahaha

OH TONY YOU KIDDER hahahaaha

Wait, your not joking?

SERIOUSLY- this is crazy. Did he really think he could just post that and get no backlash? Are woman supposed to just take this ,poorly written, rant to the chorus of 'don't be butthurt!"? I have no respect for this man,and I hope many others don't either. I thought geekdom was finally getting past the " OMG GIRLS ARE SCARY" mindset. I thought we'd come far enough that a girl enjoying video games,Doctor Who and other such things was no longer a big deal. Clearly not, and apparently people like Tony believe woman are preying on the poor 'geek boys'. WHAT? SCANTILY CLAD WOMAN? -GASP- It's not as if I DRAW THEM ALL THE DAMN TIME. Leave people alone. I don't see rants about larger men in full out being whined at. This makes me seen him as a weak minded individual,which is saddening because I enjoy his art.

Where are the people that make me proud and happy to be a part of this board spectrum of talent? Well, recently I've been noticing a more depressing trend, and soon enough this mind set is going to send the woman away.

You don't want my money? You want to segregate half the population? FINE.

I'll just send my money to MLP:FIM. At least they support love,tolerance and friendship!
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:iconmazelina:
Mazelina Featured By Owner Nov 15, 2012  Hobbyist Artisan Crafter
Larger men in full out costume*

And I mean that I see less rants about them, then I do about 'sexy cos-players'
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:icondragal996:
dragal996 Featured By Owner Nov 15, 2012  Student Traditional Artist
Wow. I am amazed at some of the things people will say. :I *sighs* Men. I shouldn't say that it's just men, but men are the majority of sexism. :/ Hnh... Makes me think of one of the cosplays I've been wanting to do... Unfortunately, I'm very short for the role (I'm 5'2" and the character is, like 5'7"+) and I don't really have the build for it. I'm short and more muscular whereas the character (Queen Myrrah, Gears of War 3, if you care :D) is very tall, very slim, and her armor suit is very revealing and feature-hugging. And that's one of the biggest things that's stopping me is that I'm honestly fearful of people being creepy, or putting me down on it... There is a small bit of flexibility about the height - I could give myself a slight boost, hidden in the boots/legs, but nonetheless, I don't have the build for it... I'm just... hesitant, at the very least, about doing it... It is a very "sexy" cosplay, absolutely. But I'm not trying to mindfck some nerdy guys. I just really like the Gears series, and even though I hate Myrrah, I'm in love with her character sculpt and such... Ugh...
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:iconrapunzelita:
rapunzelita Featured By Owner Nov 15, 2012
I love how he thoroughly fails to realise that "the most revealing costume EVER" is basically 95% of all superheroines, ever.
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:iconmrfuzzynutz:
mrfuzzynutz Featured By Owner Nov 15, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Is this Tony Harris the artist sounding off like that? WOW...
This just screams to me of a guy who thought he was a bigger deal then he was using a cheesy line to pick up 'Ms Marvel' and got soundly rejected!

This rant doesn't even make sense, and it is just rude and spiteful
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:iconrapunzelita:
rapunzelita Featured By Owner Nov 15, 2012
You're right, actually - it does sound pretty much exactly like the guys who hit on you in the street, expecting you to fall head over heels for them and only get a "no thanks". And then profusely yell at you that all women are bitches and you should be happy that *someone* wants to sleep with you, etc, etc.

Yes.

It sounds exactly like that.
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:icontamaloid:
Tamaloid Featured By Owner Nov 15, 2012  Student Digital Artist
Thanks for this. Tony is a jackass. Hopefully, more people in the industry are better about this than he is.
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:iconartyminx:
ArtyMinx Featured By Owner Nov 15, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Brilliant response.
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:icon0strummer:
0Strummer Featured By Owner Nov 15, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
thank You!
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:icondawnsentinel:
DawnSentinel Featured By Owner Nov 15, 2012
I found this if anyone is interested:

[link]
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:iconpennyonthericher:
pennyonthericher Featured By Owner Nov 15, 2012  Student General Artist
You are beautiful and you can be my idol now :XD:
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:iconfevertrick:
fevertrick Featured By Owner Nov 15, 2012
YES, YES AND A THOUSAND TIMES YES
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:iconkrisowrey:
KrisOwrey Featured By Owner Nov 15, 2012  Professional General Artist
Labels in general are no good.
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:iconhardeeharhar1423:
Hardeeharhar1423 Featured By Owner Nov 15, 2012  Student Traditional Artist
We sympathising nerds and geeks just decided that YOU CAN BE GOD AND CORRECT THE WORLD. (Please do, it's rubbish right now) 8D
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:iconmidorinokurokami:
Midorinokurokami Featured By Owner Nov 14, 2012  Hobbyist Artist
I think...you guys kind of misinterpreted his post...

Tony Harris wasn't trying to diss on cosplayers who are not aesthetically pleasing, this was a post towards cosplayers who don't KNOW their characters. Like he said, "I know a few who are actually pretty cool-and BIG Shocker, love and read Comics.So as in all things, they are the exception to the rule." However, he dislikes the ones who cosplay solely to get attention, people who don't even read the comic or know the basic plot and are only cosplaying to look like whores. Which...I completely agree with. Cons are for fans who like the pieces, not for people who have no idea what's going on.

Have you read his follow-up comment?:

"So heres my follow up commentary. Tried to "engage" my detractors on Twitter. Big mistake. Not gonna backpeddle. Not one step. I tried to be clear at the beginning by saying I know there are legit Cosplayers who know the material and love it. So if you wanna gloss over that and accuse my statements as being all inclusive of Cosplay, then blow me. See, this is why I posted this HERE, on MY page. You dont like it? Leave. Dont threaten to stop buying my work, because Im sure most of you who threw that gauntlet down, never did to begin with. Good riddance. Hey all you self righteous fuck-faces out there who are spewing even MORE hatred at me, than you accused me of spewing. pfffft. Really, thats how you come at me? Once you have moved on to hate on someone else....Good Riddance. But the one thing I HAVE to address is the use of the word MISOGYNY. So I am a Misogynist? Why? Because I frown upon Posers who are sad, needy fakers who use up all my air at Cons? Sorry, while you Cos"Play" Im actually at work. Thats my office. Fuck you. I actually dont hate women, I dont fear them either. Nor do I mistrust them. I do not portray or Objectify half naked women in my work. I never have. I have always been VERY vocal about my dislike of that practice, and that my view is and has been that T&A in comics is a Pox. If you wanna come at me with accusations of Misogyny and sexism, youll be wrong. I think there are several Hundred "PRos" I could rattle off that are doing a fine job of perpetuating that crap without ANY help from me. Its not helping to further our industry. Hey haters, Im not sad, lonely, stupid, uneducated, gay, nor do I wear Assess for a Hat. Im not a Sexist, and have been very vocal about the fact that its a GOOD thing to see so many female fans at shows, and I treat them with the same kindness and respect as I do ANY male fan I meet. I guess the one mistake I made in my original post was that I excluded Men. Let me rectify that...... SOME of you MEN, are as bad as SOME of the Women Cosplayers, I talked about earlier. There. Oh and to all of you guys who are my friends, and pros who I work with, dont go and try and defend me or anything I wrote. Youll just get shit on. Thanks though. And lastly, Bleeding Cool, and Rich Johnston are Shithead, scumbags, and this isnt the first time his camp has come after me. Fuck you Rich."
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